The Oregonian: Portland May Ban Plastic Bags

I agree this is a great idea. I have one suggestion. Paper grocery bags vary from store to store. Fred Meyer and Safeway paper bags are terrible, thin with no handles. Other stores such as New Seasons and Trader Joe's have sturdy bags with handles. I don't know if you want to dictate prices per bag by type, but you might want to include it in your discussions with grocers. My thinking is that if Safeway and Freddie's have to charge for their bags, they could provide better ones.

This is just more social engineering discrimination from the socialist dictator to be. Maybe there should be a similar charge for take out latte and espresso cups too, and definitely no more drinking from disposable cups or bottles in front of the gallery at City Council meetings.

No more plastic bags! I completely support this idea. I'm tired of seeing plastic grocery bags hanging from trees, floating around the street, etc. I agree with the above poster on the quality of paper bags as well, there is a difference.

Love your Mother Earth...no more plastic!!!! :)

Big government = forced behavior modification.

It is the mandate of Democrats to control individuals and removed our freedom of choice.

I agree that plastic bags should be discontinued. However, paper bags are a necessity that many people use for liners to their waste garbage cans that food scaps etc. get deposited into, and when full to the non-recyclabe garbage can. With no liner for this garbage, what do you think people will use? Nothing, or force everything down the disposal?? I don't think the garbage man will enjoy dumping a bunch of loose food scaps etc. out of the garbage cans weekly pick up.
This type of thought process falls short of the entended mark in my oppinion!

I'm so pleased this is a possibility for Portland. I do hope that stores will be allowed to use compostable "plastic" bags without fees. I do love any way to reduce the petroleum consumption created by plastic disposable bags and the volume of waste they produce.

i really love almost everything sam does, but i think this is going about it the wrong way. i -do- use a cloth bag, but to be truly useful, a bag has to come with you -everywhere-, because people often shop unexpectedly: plaid pantry, fast food/delis, department stores, etc. and if a trip takes more bags than expected (or if it's messy), then being punished for it seems unfair.

a better way would be to do what some stores are already doing: giving you money back & rewarding you for the bags you bring. if you wanted to encourage that, you could ask stores to increase the amount per bag. or you could increase advocacy, like having cashiers ask "did you bring your own bag?" first, and if they didn't, mentioning they would be saving x amount per bag if they did before moving onto paper or plastic. when i bring my bag now it's still a hassle for cashiers, and nobody ever -thanks- or encourages me for it, so you -really- have to believe in it to do it.

changing the status quo is easier if everyone in the system know what to expect and actually -encourages- the behaviour, rather than providing negative reinforcement. the fee is so little that it may not actually discourage the people who have yet to be swayed (like bottle deposits, many of which aren't returned by the people who bought them). but every time they're charged it will be like the death of a thousand papercuts and will reinforce their belief that the city wants to tax everything. i don't believe that, but i think it will build resentment instead of compliance.

in short: reward people for doing the right thing and promote doing the right thing rather than punishing people for doing the "wrong" thing.

YES! This is a fantastic idea. Thank you, Sam Adams. You have my support!

Can we charge Terry Parker every time he "freeloads" a post on this site?

In response to "Big government = forced behavior modification.

It is the mandate of Democrats to control individuals and removed our freedom of choice."

I'm sorry, but polluting the enviroment for future gererations because of convenience to the consumer should not fall under your freedom of choice.

Sam Why don't you tax us to wipe our as#!* ??? After all most of us use paper for that. Have you gone green with that, wiping with leaves yet? Wait, Lets scrap the light rail project since the seats are made of plastic. After all its leaving a carbon foot print. Let me guess, the tax $$$ you raise on the bags are going to fund the new Light Rail Bridge. IN CASE YOU FORGOT, we live in the USA!!! What does the word FREEDOM mean to you? It is a Social Government or more of the Dictatorship style? Hmmm. Is it already time to entertain the RECALL Idea?
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I totally support the bag fee at grocery stores. Every grocery store in Europe has had this in place for decades.
We as Americans need to get real about the environment and stop our intitlement mentality.

I believe the implementation needs to be slow and the grocers need to have positive buy-in to teach their staff to be supportive.

After a few times "people will remember the bag in the car"!!

I am a cashier at a grocery store and I agree that the reusable bags are a must for the environment. My concern is they are not sanitary. People bring in the dirtiest, most disgusting bags and cashier's have to touch them. Do you really want us bagging your groceries after handling someone else's dirt, pet hair and who knows what else? The store's have no policies in place regarding bag cleanliness. In fact we have brought this to the attention of management and have been instructed that we are not allowed to refuse to handle dirty bags.
Has anyone thought about this?

It's about time, heck, charge 50 cents a bag, maybe people will wake up and stop being so wasteful.

The American society is fat, lazy, out of shape and has no desire to be the "best" country anymore or be a leader in any way. We sit back and wait for everyone else to solve problems. It's about time we follow the lead of other countries and ban the bags or impose a large fee.

It would be even better if we were the leader in the movement, but it's too late for that.

I have to agree with Terry's comments above. Paper grocery bags are my biodegradable kitchen garbage liner. Charge me 20 cents each and I'll start buying plastic liners at Costco. I'm sure many others would do the same. Net result. More plastic bags produced. More plastic bags in our landfills.

My God, your priorities are so whacked out! I mean REALLY THINK ABOUT what you are saying "great idea" to. This is not a "fee", it is a sales tax that goes into the city's cofers to finance more moronic ideas like the Sauvie Island bridge relocation.
Do you realize how just plain disconnected from reality it sounds for you to "save Mother Earth" by upholding "Portland's Green Values"?
While you fret over plastic bags "blowing all over" and "killing marine animals" (SIGH) why not consider a practical idea like reusable bags made from cute little beaver pelts? The beaver reflects Portland's history, the bags are biodegradable, they could be very stylish and (the best part) they feel soft against your face!
Dang, what a great idea.

Mr. Adams as a person disabled living with AIDS let me make clear to you that any increase in the cost of buying groceries i.e. charging for grocery bags will have an adverse effect on my life. And more to the point is that this kind of Government enforced political correctness is what gives liberals and environmentalists a bad name. I happen to be both left of center and green but I don't turn it into a religion with an inquisition.

Great idea - We fix another problem by raising a tax.

Sure you can avoid it, you can also avoid gas taxes by not driving, water fees by not using water, paying property taxes by not owning a house, building permits by not building, etc.

I was honestly hoping for more ingenuity than Seattle, San Francisco and Europe do ti, so we can get away with it too. This is just plain old lets raise another tax philosophy.

Any other great ideas Mr Adams, I am waiting for the next water tax to get us now that you have been elected.

I would improve Portland by not creating an ordanance to pass a tax on grocery bags. I wouldn't run the government based on the assumption that government knows best and that the people are foolish and selfish so they need me and my government to ensure they live happy and safe lives. I would run the government by actually listening to all of the citizens that offer my government some advice. Lately the local city government has only been listening to citizens that agree with the governments point of view. I would reduce the cities government and taxes. I would encourage people to visit Portland by ensuring the streets of Portland are paved and don't have pot holes. I would create busines friendly practices that would encourage new companies to move to Portland, which would increase the amount of income and property tax collected which would help provide more funding for the Portland school system. These are some of the things I would do that would actually have a positive, freeing, and uplifting impact on the citizens of Portland. I would not pass rediculous taxes and build rediculous bridges that forward extreme socialistic/Marxist/environmentalist ideals.

Sincerely,

Barry G

I am amused (and annoyed) by the people who consider charging a fee for bag usage "progressive." I suppose that would make the folks wanting to use as much resources as possible to support their freedom of choice, "retrogressives" or how about "deteriorators." Of course, it isn't a joking matter. We are on a collision course of incredible magnitude as we continue to pollute, degrade and use up our earth. It's about time someone like Sam stood up and said, enough, enough, enough. I'm hoping he'll do more. I mean, really, how firggin hard is it to bring your own bags to the grocery store? If people think this is a whopping intrusion on their rights, how about the fact that our government can listen in on your phone calls and read your emails anytime they want to, without your okay or knowledge. Come on, get a grip.
Go, Sam, Go!!

Nice work Sam. All these people whining about how you're forcing them to do something they don't want to do is ridiculous. They don't have to use fabric/reusable bags if they don't want to but you're right in arguing that there should be direct cost associated with wasteful actions.

Sam,

I am so proud of you. I am behind you all the way.
Follow Ireland, 90% percent reduction of plastic bags.

For you people who disagree, plastic is non-biodegradable, it will exist forever.

Thanks

NO
I allready have bums digging through my bins to get cans. With this they will be dumping out fred meyer bags of garbage so they can get 20 cents, this adds up faster than cans do and are easier to carry (you won't need a shopping cart) How many times will they dump out dog poop and return the bag to the store?
Cloth bags are an individual choice and we are a free country that cannot be dictated to in this way.
If you were to run lab tests on some of those cloth bags I'm sure you would find many of them are full of E-COLI. Raw meat juices leaking in the bags and then used again for fresh fruit? The health dept. should have a say about this one. I choose not to use fabric.

On second thought if the money were to somehow make it all the way back to Sams office he could pay for some pet projects....

Is this just food stores or all retailers? is Prepared food different than unprepared food? The bag of leftovers from Outback? The deli at safeways? All the shops at Lofd Center? Ikea products are bagged prior to going into their shipping boxes- Those bags are sometimes pretty big. Can we unpack those boxes at Ikea so we dont have to pay? Are bags for a candy bar the same price as a bag for drycleaning???

Sam, I already pay for a grocery bag many times over, why should the store be allowed to charge me yet again for the bag that they are already making money on? Instead of charging the consumer for plastic bags, why didn't you think of making the stores only use paper, charge them is they use plastic. Put the burdon on the store.

As a political leader you need to work for your people, not against them. Many people are on limited incomes, please think about that.

I am glad I am not the only one who applauds the banning of plastic bags, but is worried about the taxing of paper bags. My family reuses the good paper bags with handles for so many things. We use them again and again, for carrying library books, taking stuff to Goodwill, schoolwork, harvesting, art projects. If one becomes unusable, we recycle it or use it for mulch in the garden. Taxing them means I either have to pay a new tax or buy paper bags (and wrapping paper, and garbage bags, and butcher paper, and drawing paper) to replace them. Please be careful as this moves ahead. People with unlimited incomes won't notice the difference, I guess, but families like ours sure will.

Thank you Sam Adams! I was thrilled to see the paper Thursday morning. I have been practicing the "art" of using reusable bags for more than a year now and have repeatedly expressed to clerks at the grocery stores it would be a huge incentive to not forget the bags in my trunk if I had to pay 25 cents for each bag rather than a silly token 5 cents taken off my tab. I do not see this as an attack on the poor we all pay for the bags in one way or another whether it is thru increased costs at the market or thru taxes to address the overwhelming landfills.

We all shoulder the burden of society it is time our country accepts this. Hats off to you.

This is so wrong on so many levels!!! First of all, We reuse both our paper bags and our plastic bage in many different ways. Next, there is the issue that many people can't afford to pay for the paper or plastic bags, let alone a permenent bag. With food prices going up daily, on a fixed or very low income, that's just another slap in the face. Then, my biggest concern is the "HEALTH SAFETY" issue!!! I don't want E-COLI and whatever other unseen yuckies, transfered from someone elses bags to mine, via the checkers hands, or the bag just sitting on the same spot the other gross bag was sitting. I looked at the washing tag inside the Fred Meyer bags, and it says hand wash in cold water, no tumble dry. That isn't enough to kill any bacteria or germs on those bags. The fancier bags they sell are made with plastic, and not to mention that both kinds of bags are made in China!! They're not even made here in America! Do you know where I'm going with that one? Also, if I don't use paper or plastic for my groceries, I'm just going to have to buy commercially made bags to replace what I use the others for. Where's the sense in that? Bottom line... Just because other states or countries do what you want - does that mean we should too? Do we need to be copy cats? I don't like being dictated to.

I have reusable grocery bags, and when I do get a paper or plastic bag I reuse it and recycle it.

I'm also happy to see other people voluntarily using reusable grocery bags, but I don't support a city policy banning plastic bags or charging a fee for bags. There are much better ways for the city to encourage the use of reusable grocery bags, and other much more important environmental and other issues that the city should tackle before grocery bags.

Even banning disposable lunch trays at school, or the useless little plastic bag (unless you need to pick up dog poop) that the Oregonian is delivered in throughout the summer months, would have a greater environmental impact than trying to ban or charge a fee for plastic grocery bags.

Or how about supporting neighborhood public schools that kids can walk/bike to again. Our child is assigned to the fourth closest school to our house due to school closures and gerrymandered boundaries. Two other schools in our neighborhood have been closed due to poor planning by the city and school district. Another has been converted to a magnet school which kids commute to from throughout the city. Daily transportation trips to school create much more harm to the environment than a few grocery bags.

I can't believe plastic bags are getting so much attention from the city when there are so many more important issues that desperately need city attention. It's the sort of thing that makes me embarrased to be a Portlander sometimes.

Bag the bag fee. Bad idea for three reasons.

1. Portland doesn't need a social engineer-in-chief.
2. Portlanders shouldn't have to carry bags every time they go out in case they make a quick stop at the store for a few items.
3. This will create more bureaucracy and more government expense.

The solution is to ban plastic bags and leave it at that. Educate people to bring their own bags when they can and to recycle the paper bags they get from the store.

What if we put machines in the stores to irradiate the cloth bags to kill the e-coli on them. the machines could be paid for through the bag tax

Some people love the idea, others hate it.

Paper bags are not the problem, plastic is. I object to paying extra for something to carry groceries home in. Cloth bags are fine for some but not large enough if you end up buying more than you planned on.

The cost of the bags the store provides is already included in your grocery bill. The solution would be to charge an extra nickel for a plastic bag which would encourage the use of paper.

There is a lot of opposition to this issue. Why not put it on the ballot and let the voter decide. Then no one would hate the politicians for shoving this one down our throats.

In the guest author post “What should the mayor know” by Bud Clark, the former Mayor said: “So my major "DO" for the new mayor is to focus on building consensus within City Hall and the community. Mr. Mayor, keep in touch with your stockholders, the citizens of our city, "the riches of the city".” Consequently, and for that reason, unless the whole concept of charging for bags in grocery stores is completely dropped, to achieve any kind of consensus of the community, the idea MUST go to the people for a vote.

Moreover, and another good reason for it to go to a vote of the people is that Portland is fast becoming a socialist empire of the elitists. About all the City Council aka the social engineers do anymore is to cater to and hand out subsidies to the special interests at the expense of increasing taxes on the backs of the working class. This idea of charging for grocery bags is nothing less than that kind of a social engineering tax put together by the chief social engineer himself, Sam Adams. The media has it all wrong when they identify Adams as the “Mayor Elect”. Unless he changes his leadership style and works toward consensus building with the everyday citizens who are the City’s stockholders and stakeholders instead of just forming so called transparent stacked deck committees with the usual suspects that suit on every other committee Adams has formed, the media ought to be calling Sam Adams “Dictator Elect Adams”.

The only thing GREEN about those cloth shopping bags is whats growing in the bottom of the bag

I just want to compliment Mayor-Elect Sam for getting Portlanders to discuss and contemplate this issue. I would be in favor of the fee for any type of bag, but I also agree with those who say this could be a hardship on lower-income folks.

We are so far behind Europe and other countries, even though we are the biggest waste-producers in the world!

I understand that people like to use plastic bags to pick up dog doo, but chances are if people can afford to have a dog, they can afford to buy a pack of plastic bags at the dollar store to pick up their dog's poo.

I think the best solution is to ban plastic bags, because they are the biggest problem. That would allow people to reuse their paper bags and use them for their garbage, etc. One step further would be to raise the rebate for using one's own bag to 25 cents, as some readers have suggested.

When I was trying to figure out who to vote for between Sam and Sho Dozono, I ended up going for Sam...for this very reason. I felt that he was more likely to push the envelope and help us create a better, more livable city! Cheers, Sam!

Etching Ray,

You stated:

"a better way would be to do what some stores are already doing: giving you money back & rewarding you for the bags you bring. if you wanted to encourage that, you could ask stores to increase the amount per bag. or you could increase advocacy, like having cashiers ask "did you bring your own bag?" first, and if they didn't, mentioning they would be saving x amount per bag if they did before moving onto paper or plastic. when i bring my bag now it's still a hassle for cashiers, and nobody ever -thanks- or encourages me for it, so you -really- have to believe in it to do it."

This would never happen, as the city would like to realize this TAX money. This would not provide tax money for the city.

Sam:

The other day Portland Community College announced a joint venture welding training program with Vigor Industries on Swan Island. This is a much needed program to train folks with needed skills to obtain family wage jobs in the metal fabrication industries in this region. The metal fabrication industries are a large segment of the manufacturing that is remaining in Portland. It is an important industry. It is probably not “green” in your frame of reference, I mean, welding the burning of metal, yikes how terrible. This region needs family wage jobs that cannot be exported and the metal fabrication business is one of our bright spots. They even make things like those big wind generators you see in the gorge. Here is my question, Sam. Where were you when a partnership like this was proposed? Where are you on developing new family wage jobs? Oh you’re too busy coming up with ways to save the planet by taxing bags.

Dear Sam;

Let's PLEASE ban plastic bags here in Portland. This issue is not about taxes or convenience, it's about taking responsibility for our impact on the environment.

I think the video at this link makes a strong case:

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080506/MULTIMEDIA02/80505016

The Portland I know and love would take this stand.

I support this effort to reduce waste, litter and pollution. Reducing and reusing come before recycling, the the use of durable, reusable bags should be encouraged. Credits for reusing your bags only go so far; a tax would level the playing field for retailers and would achieve much more than any single store's policies.

I think that with our current recycling program we don't need the bottle/can deposit any more. that would reduce the carbon footprint of those unnecesesary beer trucks where metro could take it in their pickups. We didnt have all these recycling programs back when the bottle bill passed. We don't need it anymore

What stores are included? Does this include the malls? Deli's? Restaraunts? if not restaraunts does that also exclude the deli at freddies when you buy some jo jo's? What if in that same bag with the jo jo's there was other merchandise then all of a sudden that bag needs a deposit pd.?

I totally disagree with the fee aspect if only because it requires setting up a new system that grocers have to deal with. I do however think we should just ban plastic bags. If you don't agree I urge you to watch this slideshow and then decide: www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080506/MULTIMEDIA02/80505016
Also find out about that big floating island of bags in the middle of the Pacific ocean somewhere.

And for those that think they can't bring bags with them everywhere, I have several string bags which fit nicely in my purse. They are available. You could also ball up plastic bags and reuse them.

Yes you can recycle them, but plastic bags generally aren't high enough quality for recycling, so they get melted into plugs and sent to China where they get burned for fuel, and then the air pollution comes back over here to the West coast. If we insist on using plastic bags, we should make them out of biodegradable materials so they aren't a hazard in the environment.

Oh Sam. This is why i love you.

I voted for for you with such enthusiasm. i could not wait to have a progressive, forward thinking mayor who would actually DO something for the city.

A fee on bags, moving the Sauvie Island Bridge, all key components of what makes you so great.

I look forward to your upcoming term!

There are chain stores in the metro area already charging for plastic bags. What is to say that the trend in the future will NOT be to charge for plastic bags?

Creating a sustainable city requires a multitude of tactics--one of which is reducing usage of plastic bags. This tactic is not new, not radical and has been proven to be easy to implement by cities across the globe that have already adopted this practice.

Reducing dependency on plastic bags now will make Portland look ahead of the curve or, at least with the curve. That's a place that we should aspire to be. An innovative culture is one that retains the talented people who act as economic engines for our region.

So Sam thinks reducing the use of disposable bags will actually make Portland greener. Actually more green will be disappearing in the form of discretionary spending with such a socially engineered tax, and therefore only harm small businesses.

If Sam was really considering eco-friendly issues, instead of his pick-pocketing of the taxpayers for his own misaligned priorities, Sam would drop the concept and not spend another penny on his toy train set that calls for a web of full sized Lionel streetcars, and look to the advantages of replacing diesel busses on heavily traveled transit streets with a modern fleet of low floor trolley busses. Both streetcars and electric trolley are quiet and are powered by overhead wires along the transit routes that once in place make them a permanent fixture on the streets. Both could attract new development if the same tax breaks, give-a-ways and incentives continued to be handed out to developers like free candy. The big difference is that streets and arterials do not have to be torn up to lay tracks for trolley busses making the up front system costs less that half as compared to streetcars. Furthermore, considerably less energy is consumed for installation with a far less disruptive and negative impact on the environment with trolley busses, again because the streets do not need to be torn up for rails.

What Sam fails to consider with his dictator regime agenda and misaligned priorities is the financial impact on the People that live and have small businesses in Portland. This tax, tax, tax and spend, spend, spend for his remake of everything in place is one major reason why families move to Vancouver and the suburbs, including all those City employees and police officers that are allowed to take home city vehicles at taxpayer expense.

I think it's a good idea. I'll sell bags on the curb for $.10

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There is a 3rd choice that hasn't been noticed: oxo-biodegradable plastic disposable items. They are completely recyclable, but biodegrade if not recycled. See: http://biogreenproducts.biz/whyoxo.html